Kosuth's Chairs

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Comment by Amy Mckenny 1 day ago

Thanks for joining, what wonderful videos. And thanks to Marty to pointing me in your direction.

Comment by Pascual Sisto 1 day ago

and this one which it's an alternate ending that became a Single Channel Version. Great Group. Thanks for the invite.


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Comment by Pascual Sisto 1 day ago

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Comment by Rob Van Beek 1 day ago

I always think mythology is quite satifying but not religion. It tends to take the poetry out of mytholgy and create orthodoxies of various kinds.

Some people certainly seem to need to believe. I was, and probably still am, some confused kind of revolutionary socialist, but most of my ideological beliefs are born of resentment, critique and a tendency to theorise rather than utopian conviction in a better world to come.

I've had a number of psychotic experiences, thankfully not recently.

I became quite religious then, a bit more cosmic than I usually am, for sure.

Basically I became very confused about time, sequence, linearity and began seeing everything as simultaneously connected, like one big work of art.

This hasn't made me religious, because I still prefer to ask questions and make up answers of my own, rather than accept other peoples' say so.

However, it has made be aware of abnormal states of mind, and how easy it is to loose touch with reality. (Some mythic and religious experiences seem tied up with abnormal states of mind).

I think this relates to art in various ways. Works of art are both temporal and atemporal structures. You experience a work in time but you also grasp it as a totality.

I think some people's lives and deaths may be like this too.

They experience their lives and, as their normal psychological functioning collapses, then they experience the contents of their minds in an atemporal way.

I love medieval art. It has to be said that when art was religious it used to be about things that were human and important. Now art seems to be all social surface.

I think art might become more popular again if we started offering people salvation again, and the occasional glimpse of eternity....

Certainly the possibly of being suspended in ones own mind for eternity makes me less inclined to fill my head entirely with shit...and makes the aesthetic seem more important than the social...

Comment by Amy Mckenny on 13 May 2008 at 10:06pm

Yes, It is definately saying something about us, I'm not sure what - I was just throwing an idea on the table.

I am not religious or saying that religious beliefs are true. A part of what I'm saying could be explained by saying that religious figures were/are celebrities. But, the other part of that is human willingness to believe in what these religious icons[?]/celebs[?] are 'offering' people that puts them in a place to be worshiped, in the first place. Surely it is part of the human need to believe in something that gives these people their 'power'. A human need to search for a so called truth, maybe the same urge that drives the artist?

I can see what you are saying about social groups and I agree with you when you say that we are being invited to view the spectacle from the outside, but I see nothing touching about it.

I think my basic point is that we are not yet a fully functioning secular society. We as a society still harbour religious throwbacks, even if we are atheist. We have been 'guided'[on how to live our lives] by religious beliefs and morals for a long time and when people start to not believe perhaps there is transitional stage where we look for 'guidance' elsewhere - for now it is from celebs. [what to wear, how to wear it, what art to make/like...this list will be endless] We were manipulated first by religion and now by the press... ha! there you have it, the media is the new god and the celebs are the 'saints' or 'icons'...

I'm still working this out in my head. I not sure I buy that celeb worship is due only to group social/politics and the media making the macrocosm seem like a microcosm, but I will have a think about that.

Comment by Rob Van Beek on 13 May 2008 at 11:31am

Yes, I think that a lot of what happens in Artland goes along with wider trends.

Specialisation of example. The 'world' of art exists alongside the the 'world' of poetry, the 'world' of table-tennis and the 'world' of bath fittings. These are fields that are not part of everyday life but options that one may or may not buy into from time to time. A few people may spend their whole lives in some such specialism.


I don't see the current celebity epidemic as being evidence a displaced religious attitude.

I see it as saying something about us.

We evolved as social creatures. We are okay with groups as long as they have simple structures and are not too big.

The media 'interprets' the complexities of mass life by making public figures appear as if they lived in our neighbourhoods.

There's something rather touching about this. At the same time we are being manipulated and cast as spectators in the lives of others rather than actors in our own.

The problem with religious beliefs (...there is not diplomatic way of putting this...) is they are simply not true.

Rather than religious attitudes explaining celebrity perhaps what you might be suggesting is that religious personae like Jesus, David, Mohammed where in fact celebrities?

I think there might be something in this?

Comment by Amy Mckenny on 12 May 2008 at 10:03pm

Rob, I completely agree with you about the pics of artworld 'luvvies' drinking. It is quite tacky, like heat magazine.

There is this whole celeb thing going on in general, and now with artists today. Is it a reflection of the time we are living in? Perhaps people can't cope with these more secular times. I mean that as western society becomes less religious we look to find outlets for our leftover 'innate?' faith systems, the human need to believe in something. So people put as much effort into following celebs as they would do if they believed in gods. And now we worship at the feet of the art gods...? Hmm, sorry I digressed slightly.

Comment by Rob Van Beek on 12 May 2008 at 1:01pm

Hi Amy,

I'm sorry if I sound weary of the artworld. I'm actually rather energised by being hostile to it.

The reason I'm slightly hostile towards it is that it attracts so much attention, even devotion, from artists, but actually gives next to nothing away in terms of resources (even many artists you and I might think of as well known can't afford to give up the teaching...)

In the process the artworld turns the whole business of contemporary art into a smarmy social spectacle (a current pet hate of mine are the photos that show people we're supposed to be interested in drinking at some opening or other...) In order words it effectively makes art more exclusive and less accessible that it should be. Art, like music and sport should be an everyday activity that people have direct contact with not a globalised rarity.

I think art has a job to do in the real world.

I think artists sorting out art is part of the bigger job of mankind sorting out its relationship to its products.

The artworld is principally interested in art as a product, certainly not in art as the beginning of the end of product culture.

The artworld has a massive vested interest in our view of art not changing. All change must be part of the wonderful open-ended history of 'modernity'.

I often try to see my work in other contexts. For example I sometimes consider what I do as architecture, design, therapy, philosophy or as existing outside of time rather than as art history. It's not that these field don't have their absurdities but it makes you feel that you are more than an artslave, working for nothing in the vain hope of having your life changed by someone else.

At the same time I know that I 'belong' in art and art belongs to me, in a way that I'm sure many of us share. Because we are committed in this way doesn't mean that we have to surrender control of our activity to an army of auxillaries: dealers, collectors, curators, journalists, impersarios, administrators.

We have to give ourselves some credit. Ours is not simply a social role it is a relationship to reality, we have been around for 40 000 years. These professionals have been around for about five minutes. If you stop paying them tomorrow their commitment to art would stop shortly thereafter.

I'm just off to see touring exhibition of photographs from the V & A at Nottingham Castle with my partner on a beautiful sunny day. This is acceptable face of the art world.

I'll get back to you about 'one idea art'.

Comment by Amy Mckenny on 11 May 2008 at 10:46pm

Hi Rob, interesting thoughts as evr, though you sound truely weary of the art world!

Could you explain further what you mean when you say 'one idea art'. I may have missed the point but I read it as meaning, when an artist takes one idea, like you say, chairs or pixelation and stays with it and repeats it over again. Or do you mean when an artist tries to make work that is intended to get them 'noticed'? Like a 'one liner' - work that is not multi-dimensional?

I see it as part of art 'practice', to take an initial idea/theory/notion/spark...however small it is [even a piece of string] and to play with it, push it, practice with it untill you have taken it as far as you can - maturing your idea before moving on. Extracting from that 'spark' or 'idea' what it is you wanted to say. But as I said, I may have mis-understood your meaning...

The internet 'artworld' is an interesting phenomenon, in itself.
I think you are right in saying it could have an effect on the way people work and in general, we might see more people making work on the computer and uploading it straight away. Instant gratification...? fast moving, no time to decompose.

Comment by CLAUDIE BASTIDE on 10 May 2008 at 6:17am

Hi American chair-addicts and the others,read this
Save the Date!
Adirondack Art Chairs 2008: An Exhibition Trail & Auction
Preview Party Announced!
Saturday, May 31 • 4-6pm
Join us at the Crowne Plaza Resort & Golf Club, Lake Placid! This special exhibition features 38 Adirondack Chairs - each lent the artistic talents of a regional artist. The chairs will be placed on "the Trail" at various locations in the North Country for the summer. This is the only chance to view all 38 chairs in one location until the exhibit returns to the LPCA in mid-August.

Here is the address:info@lakeplacidarts.org

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